I think people who defend the coercion aspect of the long-form census with the usual anti-Harper hysterics are missing the point. Or at least, aren't trying to question it. Talk about assuming all is well. I thought we were told to question things.
Alternate, reasonable take on the long-form census. Love the links too. 21 000 Jedi Knights in Canada? Who knew? A while ago I posted that some sources had it around 55 000. Either way, it's funny.
Beats the crap coming out of the press. In fact, publications such as these (who happen to be libertarian and classical liberal) at least stay clear of the present narrative in the mainstream. Notice the lousy, typical, hyper quotes from our "intellectuals." Right away the doofuses readily assume anyone who opposes state coercion is a "right-wing, ultra-conservative, meanie."
Lame.
Lame.
***
Another, albeit more strict, take:
"Fast-forward 350 years, and who do we hear denouncing the Conservative government’s decision to scrap the mandatory long-form questionnaire of the census? All those whose job it is to plan and manage society’s development. There was only one such bureaucrat in the 1660s, but today there are hundreds of thousands of them in Canada, at all levels of government and even beyond, in all the parasitic “private” organizations and professional fields that depend on government to conduct their business."
Yeah, it's scary to find out the truth... we should suppress that as much as possible and ask nothing at all. That way we can maintain our pre-conceived notions of how things are. Reality is too frightening to face...
ReplyDeleteHonestly, if you're afraid of your government, leave. No one's stopping you, which is evidence enough that you're ridiculous paranoia is unfounded.
You know what? How you can determine there's paranoia in this post leaves me scratching my head. You're something else I tell ya.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where to begin ripping this obtuse, piece of gibberish to bits.
And nothing makes me laugh more than the "if you don't like it then leave" line. Isn't that a little like the "America love it or leave it" false dichotomy right-wingers you so loathe use?
Don't pull that shit again here.
And please, Mr. Rational Empirical GranD Poo-Bah, explain to me what were my pre-conceived notions that precluded me from the reality, in this case, of the long-form registry?
Please point out what is so god dang paranoid. Love it whenever people with the state's dick so far up their asses run amock claiming others to be paranoid for merely questioning them.
Don't be so sure of your own views.
Ga'head. I'm curious to hear your opinion ON THE ISSUE AT HAND: Should a census be mandatory and coerced? What is so fucking paranoid in this? Instead of falling back on crap like:
"that you're ridiculous paranoia is unfounded"
Where is it unfounded? Now keep in mind. I didn't say anywhere we should scrap anything. All I did was post alternate views and took issue with the usual hysterical bull shit that comes from so-called "progressives."
I'm not saying love it or leave it. Clearly if you ever read anything I wrong, I don't love much of anything. Perhaps you read my tone as that of the right-winger who says it, but let me explain.
ReplyDeletePeople who oppose a census on principle or if it asks question that would be incredibly useful for data gathering purposes and studies which we can empirically use to better understand the state of a nation's population also use the same paranoid excuse:
WHAT IF SOMEONE USES IT TO HUNT US DOWN!
You're a rational, adult human being who is allowed to make you own choices. If you think your government is even capable of doing that, you should seek refuge in a friendlier place. I'm not even Canadian (sadly), so I have no vested interest in kicking you out of Canada.
If you honestly think the Canadian government is going to use the Census data to hunt you down... I'm being totally serious, without a hint of sarcam: get the fuck out of Canada, for your own safety.
If, on the other hand, you're just blindly questioning for no reason with no basis whatsoever... I have to ask again: why are you so afraid of being confronted with the facts? What are you so afraid of regarding a census asking your religion? I'd ask "boxers or briefs" if I was running it. I wouldn't come knock on your door with two big men in black suits if you refused to answer that particular question, but I'd still ask it.
Why? Hanes sponsored my campaign, duh.
If you want to know why I take it personally, I worked for the US census this summer and saw how unbelievably respectful our workers were and how unbelievably paranoid and inexplicably angry non-respondents were.
On top of my, my wife uses census data for he research, and the Bush administration screwed over many of her colleagues when they altered the content of the 2010 census. Data that had been collected for decades but is no longer have wrecked the trend studies of several people whose sole purpose in life is to help us better understand what's going on.
You want me to believe some bullshit about how people value their privacy when they're willing to give any piece of information asked when filling out forms for banks, grocery stores frequent shopper cards, facebook, etc.?
I questioned this a long time ago, and I also have first hand experience from the inside and from experts. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm impatient and jumping to conclusions, because I've seen this bullshit so many times. I'm just way ahead of you on this one, and I'm not feeling patient enough to wait for you to catch up.
If "they" want the information needed to abuse us, they wouldn't use the census. They would call up the private companies who have it already. When they tapped cell phones, they didn't hack in: they just asked Sprint.
Wake the fuck up.
Thank you for the clarification.
ReplyDeleteSome people ARE paranoid like Dale Gribble. But not all.
And I think you've hung around here enough to know I'm not Gribble. Although...sometimes...
I never, ever question the dutiful work civil servants provide and I didn't here. I have many, many, MANY friends who work on the public side from diplomats to teachers. My wife is a teacher. I'm attuned to what they go through.
Nor do I question the value (although some people do) about the data compiled. It's HOW it's done that rubs people the wrong way.
Personally, as I've said in the past, I'd fill it out. I don't give a shit. UP TO A POINT. Although I'd be awfully tempted to jot down Jedi Knight as occupation.
If I feel it's invasive or time-consuming (even though I do appreciate the government's privacy concerns. What, with all info. being anonymous but...there's always a but) I should not be coerced into providing it. No civil servant or bureaucracy should have the right to have the state levy a fine or jail term for my not wanting to give certain information out.
The long-form census is LONG. They're not kidding and quite frankly, people don't have time to fill it out. If they don't want to, for whatever reasons, let it go. The short-form is mandatory and long voluntary. It's a fair compromise.
I'm all for letting people JUDGE FOR THEMSELVES no matter if I like the decision or not.
Honest, I though we had a special relationship here. Sniff, sniff.
The goverment decided, genuinely or not,
Imagin if they SCRAPPED it the fall out!
ReplyDeleteSorry. I didn't finish off the comment previous to the one above.
ReplyDeleteNor am I going to.
I don't remember what garbage I was going to express.
I have no idea how they do it in Canada, but I'm curious if you can find anyone who was ever brought up on charges for not answering their census questions. In the US, there was right-wingers all over talking about it, but no one actually is charged.
ReplyDeleteIt's not "the law" that people respond in the US; the onus of the law is actually on the government to accurately count people. The responsibility is actually on the government, which is why the government will send people to verbally ask and seek answers for the form, if not from you, then a neighbor.
Three people in Philly were arrested in census related incidents, all from assaulting enumerators. You can vote out the government, but those nut cases who live among us are there regardless of what happens politically. Maybe that's why the government can't hold a candle to private citizens in my book.
Doesn't mean you can't question the government. Of course you should, but... seriously, the census? That's the most pressing issue? It'd be like me focusing on my blog about how Christians were slave owners, or how they started the Crusades. I wouldn't waste my time on such straw men.
Is that the best we can do when criticizing the government from a conservative view? What the govt "might" do, in a worst case scenario? *shakes head* How horrible it must be, to have everything mostly how you want it already.
It's always the little issues that take the front pages. Same in the USA no? It's just that our small issues are even more banal.
ReplyDeleteIt's not conservatives who made it an issue: It's liberals.
I guess you didn't read the link I provided - about how many people actually get fined/arrested. Which is why my tone wasn't hysterical. Still. It's on the books and if it's so harmless why have it on?
What they "might" is something that we should consider because it seems arbitrary and I wouldn't want the roulette ball falling on my number.
Follow?