Lemme ask. Have you ever earned over 50k a year or own property?
I have.
Progressive taxes is bull shit.
I'm more than happy to pay my taxes to stuff I believe the state shoud be running. In addition to infrastructure and defense, I'm fine with giving part of my earnings to socially conscious programs including unemployment insurance. In tough times, keep people off the streets and looking for work.
In this way, I'm with you. Taxes are part of of life.
BUT.
But is it whining when we question HOW MANY programs are in place and HOW MANY are squandered and wasted?After all, I PAY for it, no? Wouldn't you do the same for a household budget?
I don't agree with you at all that we shouldn't put pressure (at least that's what I get from you) to slow down the pace of government sticking its hands in your wallet.
I also recognize costs go up and the state needs to increase taxes. That's fine. It just feels as though we're paying for a lot of stuff we don't need and mismanagement in hard times. People don't see a whole lot of return on their bucks. I'm glad that you do.
My wife earned quite a bit during summer school. It was cash we needed. The government took 42% of it off the top. It made us sick to our stomach. We're talking serious cash we could have used.
The property taxes on my parent's commercial buildings are asinine and if we don't be careful, it won't be worth owning them sometime down the future. Taxes account for nearly 60% of our NET revenues. Soon enough it will pass the original cash outlay and we'll be like Europe.
That strikes you as normal? Money my father worked 15 hours a day for 30 years SAVING that sometimes heads into the hands of corrupt politicians?
What planet do you live on?
But you're right. We should all just shut up and take it up the ass because we don't live in Africa.
I don't want one cent of my money going to "defense" (i.e. brutal and bloody wars over oil). More money is spent on that any given year than is spent on social welfare programs in the US over a decade, yet I have the the ability to see that how Republicans and Democrats spend money has nothing to do with how taxes ought to be collected.
The US was built on Eisenhower's ~90% tax rate on the highest income bracket. Since it was slowly reduced and after Reagen nearly did away with the progressive tax entirely, I'd noticed money has quickly accumulated in the hands of a few who do not allow money to "trickle down," but instead sit on their money and give it to their children, who become the wealthiest people in the world without lifting a finger (hey, Waltons!).
You're talking about people who have jobs and work hard and can't buy this or that extra thing. I'm talking about the fact that most people my age cannot even find a job, while some have two or three jobs which don't even pay the bills. We're in this situation because the wealthiest Americans have been allowed to loot their companies for all their worth while leaving but table scraps for the rest of us to fight over. And if we complain about the scraps, they move the work overseas where they don't have to worry about pesky things like "minimum wage" (which doesn't even pay for food, let alone rent or god forbid a mortgage) or working conditions.
You are not in the elite, my friend. You aren't anywhere near it. You aren't even fit to shine the shoes of the elite. And yet for some reason, you're tooting their horn. I'm sure things may be different in Canada (you don't get charged 800 dollars for a 2 block Ambulance ride you were coerced into taking, I assume?), but here in the US, taxes are not keeping down the middle class, it's the rich.
And there is zero difference between the Tea Party and the Republican Party. The Tea Party was founded as a pseudo-grassroots organization by wealthy Republicans like Dick Armey (most appropriate name ever?) and his FreedomWorks lobby and Koch Industries, the largest privately owned company in the US. There's nothing even remotely revolutionary about these old hats.
It's the same thing we've gotten from the right since the day I was born: a bunch of stale, old crackers sitting on the top shelf, crying about how great the view is. You know, bitching about "socialism" while cashing in their social security checks and going to the doctor on Medicare...
Tea Partiers are hypocrites, one and all, and it's quite amusing to see them pretend they're "standing up" to something in Washington, when the fact is that these jack offs have gotten their way since the 80's, and now they don't want to reap the what they're sown, so they've pushed all the problems onto my generation.
I wonder if they realize my generation is the one that would win if there actually was a "revolution" right now... do these fossils in walkers and wheelchairs honestly think they'd be anything but target practice? Most of them look like they'd break a hip if they actually had to carry their own economic weight.
Just applying what we experience. It's a stramwan to throw them in - and watch what you say - I've rubbed elbows with a few and I most certainly A) hold my own and B) give two shits about them.
-Defense, to me, includes a police force. I have no problem with a military but then again, the Canadian example is different from the American one. Wher you guys go over board, we are, erm, under board.
-The U.S. is different from Canada and the looting you speak of is certainly a reality.
-We do pay for ambulance services and it's not cheap. Again, fine with it if it means keeping them well trained and afloat.
-Tea Partiers: "Taking back America" is a bit of a stretchy slogan.
I think you would have to live in America today as a poor or young person to see what is going wrong. The old and the wealthy have taken care of themselves, but the rest of us are never going to attain the success of the previous generations, and to top it all off: we're saddled with the epic trillion dollar bills racked up by the old geezers and fat cats.
Over half of bankruptcies in America are due to medical bills. Digest that for a second, and really think about it: you or someone you love gets sick, so sick you have to go through lengthy treatment, and on the other side, all that's staring you in the face is a mountain of debt and lengthy legal proceedings with your insurance company and their slick team of lawyers. Suddenly that asthma attack you had when you were 12 or the yeast infection your wife had in high school is grounds for being dropped due to an "undiscloced medical history."
That is our reality. That is the private hell Tea Partiers have fought tooth and nail to keep us in. It's bullshit, and I have more friends who have been negatively affected by this predatory system than have not. No one is going into debt because of taxes, certainly not the richest individuals who loot our economy with their get-rich-quick-scams.
Chances at success enjoyed by the previous generation are low here as well. My father started his business which much less fuss and in a much better time than I am. It's far harder to succeed today than before and there are many reasons for this.
Although I think I make solid, valid points that cannot be dismissed. His assertion about defending the "elite' because we're concerned about taxes is bull shit.
I know you aren't supporting "the elite," TC, you're just arguing over a different system. If you lived in a country with as much debt as America, with as many predatory billionaires, with a right-wing party that is nothing but an arm of the corporate elite that have convinced the hoi polloi that they, too, can be filthy rich one day (while simultaneously stepping on their throat)... well, maybe you'd see things differently.
I still know a 90% tax is inevitable. Eisenhower did it to pay for WWII, and would need a 900% tax to pay off the Reagan/Bush debts in a timely manner... but those are debts that the US will carry for generations.
What is "the Tea Party?"
ReplyDeleteDid anyone ever care tell you your eyes reveal a certain coyness?
ReplyDeleteCareful, the tea pot may boil over in November; I just hope we will not all be scalded.
ReplyDeleteYou don't need to be able to read tea leaves to see that there's nothing new about a bunch of old people whining about taxes and Democrats.
ReplyDeleteIf you can explain to me the difference between the Tea Party and the Republican Party, I'll explain the difference between a cunt and a twat.
Whining? That's how you characterize it?
ReplyDeleteLemme ask. Have you ever earned over 50k a year or own property?
I have.
Progressive taxes is bull shit.
I'm more than happy to pay my taxes to stuff I believe the state shoud be running. In addition to infrastructure and defense, I'm fine with giving part of my earnings to socially conscious programs including unemployment insurance. In tough times, keep people off the streets and looking for work.
In this way, I'm with you. Taxes are part of of life.
BUT.
But is it whining when we question HOW MANY programs are in place and HOW MANY are squandered and wasted?After all, I PAY for it, no? Wouldn't you do the same for a household budget?
I don't agree with you at all that we shouldn't put pressure (at least that's what I get from you) to slow down the pace of government sticking its hands in your wallet.
I also recognize costs go up and the state needs to increase taxes. That's fine. It just feels as though we're paying for a lot of stuff we don't need and mismanagement in hard times. People don't see a whole lot of return on their bucks. I'm glad that you do.
My wife earned quite a bit during summer school. It was cash we needed. The government took 42% of it off the top. It made us sick to our stomach. We're talking serious cash we could have used.
The property taxes on my parent's commercial buildings are asinine and if we don't be careful, it won't be worth owning them sometime down the future. Taxes account for nearly 60% of our NET revenues. Soon enough it will pass the original cash outlay and we'll be like Europe.
That strikes you as normal? Money my father worked 15 hours a day for 30 years SAVING that sometimes heads into the hands of corrupt politicians?
What planet do you live on?
But you're right. We should all just shut up and take it up the ass because we don't live in Africa.
As for the differences between Republicans and Tea Party, it's hard to say. One is an organized party, the other is a formless entity still evolving.
ReplyDeleteI don't want one cent of my money going to "defense" (i.e. brutal and bloody wars over oil). More money is spent on that any given year than is spent on social welfare programs in the US over a decade, yet I have the the ability to see that how Republicans and Democrats spend money has nothing to do with how taxes ought to be collected.
ReplyDeleteThe US was built on Eisenhower's ~90% tax rate on the highest income bracket. Since it was slowly reduced and after Reagen nearly did away with the progressive tax entirely, I'd noticed money has quickly accumulated in the hands of a few who do not allow money to "trickle down," but instead sit on their money and give it to their children, who become the wealthiest people in the world without lifting a finger (hey, Waltons!).
You're talking about people who have jobs and work hard and can't buy this or that extra thing. I'm talking about the fact that most people my age cannot even find a job, while some have two or three jobs which don't even pay the bills. We're in this situation because the wealthiest Americans have been allowed to loot their companies for all their worth while leaving but table scraps for the rest of us to fight over. And if we complain about the scraps, they move the work overseas where they don't have to worry about pesky things like "minimum wage" (which doesn't even pay for food, let alone rent or god forbid a mortgage) or working conditions.
You are not in the elite, my friend. You aren't anywhere near it. You aren't even fit to shine the shoes of the elite. And yet for some reason, you're tooting their horn. I'm sure things may be different in Canada (you don't get charged 800 dollars for a 2 block Ambulance ride you were coerced into taking, I assume?), but here in the US, taxes are not keeping down the middle class, it's the rich.
And there is zero difference between the Tea Party and the Republican Party. The Tea Party was founded as a pseudo-grassroots organization by wealthy Republicans like Dick Armey (most appropriate name ever?) and his FreedomWorks lobby and Koch Industries, the largest privately owned company in the US. There's nothing even remotely revolutionary about these old hats.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same thing we've gotten from the right since the day I was born: a bunch of stale, old crackers sitting on the top shelf, crying about how great the view is. You know, bitching about "socialism" while cashing in their social security checks and going to the doctor on Medicare...
Tea Partiers are hypocrites, one and all, and it's quite amusing to see them pretend they're "standing up" to something in Washington, when the fact is that these jack offs have gotten their way since the 80's, and now they don't want to reap the what they're sown, so they've pushed all the problems onto my generation.
I wonder if they realize my generation is the one that would win if there actually was a "revolution" right now... do these fossils in walkers and wheelchairs honestly think they'd be anything but target practice? Most of them look like they'd break a hip if they actually had to carry their own economic weight.
Hm.
ReplyDeleteI think we are coming from two different angles.
Elite? Defend? Huh?
Just applying what we experience. It's a stramwan to throw them in - and watch what you say - I've rubbed elbows with a few and I most certainly A) hold my own and B) give two shits about them.
-Defense, to me, includes a police force. I have no problem with a military but then again, the Canadian example is different from the American one. Wher you guys go over board, we are, erm, under board.
-The U.S. is different from Canada and the looting you speak of is certainly a reality.
-We do pay for ambulance services and it's not cheap. Again, fine with it if it means keeping them well trained and afloat.
-Tea Partiers: "Taking back America" is a bit of a stretchy slogan.
Um, I mean, don't give two shits about them.
ReplyDeleteDid you by any chance read the National Jounral link about the TP?
ReplyDeleteI think you would have to live in America today as a poor or young person to see what is going wrong. The old and the wealthy have taken care of themselves, but the rest of us are never going to attain the success of the previous generations, and to top it all off: we're saddled with the epic trillion dollar bills racked up by the old geezers and fat cats.
ReplyDeleteOver half of bankruptcies in America are due to medical bills. Digest that for a second, and really think about it: you or someone you love gets sick, so sick you have to go through lengthy treatment, and on the other side, all that's staring you in the face is a mountain of debt and lengthy legal proceedings with your insurance company and their slick team of lawyers. Suddenly that asthma attack you had when you were 12 or the yeast infection your wife had in high school is grounds for being dropped due to an "undiscloced medical history."
That is our reality. That is the private hell Tea Partiers have fought tooth and nail to keep us in. It's bullshit, and I have more friends who have been negatively affected by this predatory system than have not. No one is going into debt because of taxes, certainly not the richest individuals who loot our economy with their get-rich-quick-scams.
Chances at success enjoyed by the previous generation are low here as well. My father started his business which much less fuss and in a much better time than I am. It's far harder to succeed today than before and there are many reasons for this.
ReplyDelete'with much less fuss.'
ReplyDeleteMan, this wine is heavy.
T'will come as no surprise to you T.C. that I sympathise with Bret's point of view.
ReplyDeleteI surmised you would.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I think I make solid, valid points that cannot be dismissed. His assertion about defending the "elite' because we're concerned about taxes is bull shit.
By the way, that doesn't mean I don't think his points don't have merit.
ReplyDeleteI know you aren't supporting "the elite," TC, you're just arguing over a different system. If you lived in a country with as much debt as America, with as many predatory billionaires, with a right-wing party that is nothing but an arm of the corporate elite that have convinced the hoi polloi that they, too, can be filthy rich one day (while simultaneously stepping on their throat)... well, maybe you'd see things differently.
ReplyDeleteI still know a 90% tax is inevitable. Eisenhower did it to pay for WWII, and would need a 900% tax to pay off the Reagan/Bush debts in a timely manner... but those are debts that the US will carry for generations.