I've been thinking about some forgotten and lost societies lately.
I'm pretty funny at parties even though I take time to think about such things. Seriously.
The first one that captured my imagination are the Marsi I read about on Man of Roma blog.
My question to him was: "Were the Marsi indigenous to Italy? I believe they revolted in around 89 B.C. so I’m thinking they’re not of Germanic origin?"
Apparently, the Marsi were a impressive lot. According to wiki, it was said that the Romans had never triumphed over them or without them.
Here's MOR's response:
"Yes, we don’t know much about the Marsi. I checked: there was a Marsi folk in Germany, but they probably were different people. The Marsi close to us (ROME) had their chief town in Marruvium (today’s San Benedetto de’ Marsi) close to L’Aquila, today’s main town of Abruzzo. They had priests linked to witchcraft, weird medicine and snakes. The cult of their goddess Angitia seems also linked in some way to the snakes. Fascinating warriors, among the best.
Fighting against Marsi and Samnites taught the Romans many things, if I recall well, especially to fight on any terrain, even mountains, and the Roman legion was for this reason subdivided into maniples and centuries, much more flexible as a weapon, while the Greeks were at their best only on flat land with their rigid phalanx armed with extremely long spears (like Alexander’s phalanx), which resulted less powerful than the Roman legion when the Romans invaded Greece. But, to be honest, the Greeks that the Romans encountered were already at their decadence.
I always wondered what would have happened if Alexander the Great headed West instead of East or classical Athens and Sparta (or Alexander) ever met Caesar. But of course this is either illogical or absurd. Illogical since Alexander had little interest to invade the West, which was poorer and backwards compared to the East (plus the eastern Persians at that time were Greeks’ great enemy). Absurd because Caesar belonged to a much later time."
Another race of people that captivated me were the Stedinger (Frieslander.)
From Charles Mackay:
"...The Frieslanders, inhabiting the district from the Weser to the Zuydersee, had long been celebrated for their attachment to freedom and their successful struggles in its defense. As early as the 11th century they had formed a general confederacy against the encroachments of the Normans and the Saxons, which was divided into seven seelands..."
"...they already had true notions of representative government..."
From the link:
"...But the Stedingers were willing to defend their freedom to the death. Their leaders were Bolko von Bardenfleth, Tammo von Huntrop and Detmar tom Diek. Determined, they stood against the enemies (a league made up of Dominicans, Archbishop of Bremen, Count of Oldenburg)of their freedom.
These proud, brave country folk, who had taken up arms for the defense of their homeland and their freedom, were killed. Nearly 5,000 Stedinger bodies covered the blood soaked earth of their land , where once the waters of the Weser had flowed. In the Saxon Chronicles it is stated objectively and realistically:
"ALDUS NAMEN DE STEDINGE EREN ENDE"
"Thus the Stedingers met their end"
I thought about the American republic when first came across the Stedinger. It made me realize many societies, tribes etc. throughout history have fought for freedom and liberty but were usually defeated. It wasn't until 1776 did the concept of a free society incorporated within a powerful nation-state succeed. In many ways, the United States is the embodiment of all races who fought for liberty that came before them.
The Frisians. A very interesting folk and minority in Medieval Northern Europe. Thanks for the great link.
ReplyDeleteThey seem to be have been a Germanic tribe originally. They were still Pagan in a period when Northern Europe was mostly Christian. One of the reason they were attacked. But they were not totally destroyed and only partially they are a forgotten race.
I mean, many survived, others migrated. There is still a region in Holland bearing their name, they still have their dialect and they were /are probably scattered between Germany and Holland.
Oddly enough, one of my best friends, schoolmate of mine since we were 6, is a Roman but his father’s mother came from that region in Holland. I met her when she was very old. She really looked very German, and my friend too. He always said he was partly Frisian from his father’s side, and he of course travelled about that said region many times (he speaks German, French and English very well).
I think you are right. When I was in Nice in 1976 and we were studying European institutions and cultures we discussed a lot about European minorities and how a new European state should care more about ethnicities and less about nation-states. Mere ideals. The model very admired was the political thought of the American Federalists, Alexander Hamilton especially.
The link seems to suggest they were originally Dutch farmers.
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised Hamilton won out over Jefferson. ;<)
MOR, just spoke to a friend in Holland who told me that they are indeed of Dutch origin but because of migration (what else is new?) they are also of German stock.
ReplyDeleteThey still exist. Who are they these days? They demand, true to their history, autonomy. His point of comparison was Quebec: Seeking independence but with little money.
Well, as far as I know, and a few Dutch friends confirmed it (though feeling sort of uneasy about it because of ww2), the Dutch people are closely related to the Germans.
ReplyDeleteI've always thought they come from some German tribe, and Wikipedia seems to confirm it (close to the Franks? ).
My knowledge of German, not such a big deal, allows though me to understand more or less Dutch newspapers, Dutch being very similar to German (and to the Saxon elements of English, another variety of German). As a test, you can ask your friend if he understands a bit German papers, it’d be interesting to know. The name itself, Dutch, is identical to Deutsch, it is only pronounced differently.
I think it is important to remember that if it weren't for Luther and his translation of the Bible, which imposed one German variant on the others, we would now have many German languages instead of one. This whole thing, this belonging to the great German families and tribes, can apply to the Frisians as well.
He knows German. He lives right on the border.
ReplyDeleteThough he's not a fan of their soccer. ;<)
As I can see, soccer for you is everywhere, even among the German tribes ...
ReplyDelete;-)
Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
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