Onions Are From Mars; Quebec Nationalists From Pluto

Behold Quebec's future intellectuals.

I didn't want to do this because it's so silly but let's break it down since these people seem to live in a world filled with Unicorns, and Spaghetti Monsters.

"...We would keep the Canadian money simply to keep economic stability. There is certainly a risk in Quebec. We would have to take out loans. Investors are very interested in Quebec."

Different tooon from the CAQ's Legault take on economic things, eh?

Notice how it suddenly becomes Canada's problem to "stabilize" Quebec should they decide to separate. Canadians will have no say in a referendum AND whether Quebec gets to unilaterally keep the currency. I gather it would be the same for the passport.

Geez, with a wife like that.

Yes, that's all one of the most indebted jurisdiction on the continent needs, more loans! More interest to pay!

In any event, I heard investment in Quebec is down 60%. That is an extraordinary figure and one that's a serious matter. 

The economic situation in Quebec is extremely favourable. In terms of income per capita we are less indebted than other countries. 

Yup. With debt equating to 53% of its GDP we're the least indebted. Jesus me. Would love to see the source for his claim. Suddenly, it's the Bizarro world.

We have among the highest debt and unemployment, low productivity and savings rate and  high union participation rates. Quebec's economy is a laggard among productive economies.

Quebec’s capacity to innovate and transform from our geniuses here is great. Think Cirque de Soleil, think about Quebecers in Las Vegas, Bombardier, software - the creators here are numerous.

It's impressive but that's pigeonholing. Every major nation has a 'cirque' in some industry. A brand of sort. Bombardier survives on subsidies so let's leave this sterling success story aside.

I tend to agree Quebec has talent, I just don't think we have the right entrepreneurial policies in place nor do I think we're as free-enterprising as this guy paints.

The Anglophones are also Quebecers, what’s important is that they feel Quebecois. There are people that feel Canadian and that’s fine. I feel that many Anglophones are feeling less and less Canadian (tell me, what color are the unicorns in your world? Do they smoke weed?). We can’t force people to love Quebec. There’s a lot of Anglophone media that are using fear. They say an independent Quebec is racist, xenophobic and wants to exterminate the English. There are people that compare us to Nazis, but that’s completely false.

It astounds me how tone deaf they are to having lost the "branding" game. I have no idea where he pulled the "less and less Canadian" bit. Maybe out of his ass. It's not an insignificant reality that none of the major communities - be it Chinese, Natives, Italians, Greeks, Jews, Irish, Polish, Portuguese, Lebanese, Irish - most of which are net savers with substantial assets have no interest - nay, respect - in the nationalist game.

Maybe he should be privy to what we really think behind closed doors then maybe he'll rethink his media boogeyman. There are plenty of state aggression against private citizens NOT REPORTED.

Of all things spewed by nationalists, the anglo media thing upsets and irritates me most.

Laws like Bill 14 are rooted in xenophobia and anti-English all under the guise of protecting one community at the expense of another through punitive measures. I don't need a news report to tell me what's already obvious.

It's like The Enlightenment never reached Quebec.

I guess they missed the memo about guarding against the "tyranny of the majority."

When you look at the politics in Quebec and the people here, I think we’re just so different than the rest of Canada. You see the last federal elections the way that Quebec voted completely different than the rest of Canada and I think that’s a huge indicator of that.

An American leftist said this. Yeah well, so does California and I don't see it looking to break from the Union. This is such a stupid argument. We vote differently ergo we need to separate? What kind of logic is that especially since you can flip it and say, "Alberta votes differently so it too should break off?"

Dumb.

Well, she is from uber-leftist Maryland. So I'll let it slide.

"I think it’s a myth if people think that Anglos are going to massively leave the province. That’s more fear mongering than anything else. There will be some that choose to leave, but I don’t think it will be a mass majority of people."

Citation for your myth?

People who pimp out mythical stories shouldn't be talking about myths about others. I'm one of those people, and lemme tell ya sis I'm plugged in, and people will leave.

The degree of it is impossible to tell. It was massive in 1976 - even though nationalists pretend this never happened - but the numbers are not really the point. Even if it's 10% or 100 people  IT'S NOT GOOD FOR AN ECONOMY. The cost of losing business is immeasurable. Once it's gone; it's gone. You can't "get it back." The unintended consequences are incalculable.

And if they feel losing people based on a tribal issues is worth the cost, then don't be surprised people with real money stay away.

I think the main difference between now and let’s say thirty years ago is that people in Quebec are more proud of who they are, they have the conviction that we can do our things and be a powerful nation. Just to give you an example, if Quebec was a country we would be the 19^th wealthiest OECD country out of 35 and we’d be the 27^th largest nation according to GDP out of 235 countries and regions (money socialists like him would then plunder for free education and other "free shit."). We now have powerful corporations like CGI, like Cirque de Soleil, like Bombardier that work in nations across the world. And I think we have more conviction in ourselves.

This is my favorite part sold by a left-wing student protestor.

Never mind Canada itself isn't really a "powerhouse" so how Quebec would become one is a little far fetched for me to comprehend.

Proof that stats can be whatever you want it to mean.

On the gross side of things, yeah, Quebec looks good. And yes, if you pull out Quebec ALONE it's a top 30 "country."

But again, let's look at it from a jurisdictional perspective. Quebec likes to set the terms of its arguments but we don't have to here. In reality, Quebec is the 16th largest economic entity on the continent so in reality, we can argue it's the 43rd largest country in the world. Already 27th wasn't "powerhouse" territory" imagine how much less so 43rd is. Look around which countries are in the 30-43 range. Not that impressive.

Want more? Let's consider global subdivisions where Quebec's rank 40th.

Indeed, it's a big economy but he may want to rethink that "powerhouse" thing. For example, Quebec would rank ahead of South Korea but I don't think anyone would claim Quebec's economy is more efficient, innovative or productive. Or Beijing or Alberta both places awash in cash.

In this student's mind, he mistakes size for real wealth. Wealth he'd love to plunder for expanding generous welfare and social programs - like "free" university education.

That's the second guy to mention Cirque and Bombardier. I dunno if these people actually follow how stock markets, and economic indicators function but it will take a helluva lot more than just two or three companies to push a nation forward. Cirque is not a publicly traded company and Bombardier's stock stinks.

Let's be even more frank. It's a branch plant economy, just like the rest of Canada is, for the USA. It has no features needed to be taken serious: No passport, no military, no stock exchange, no cash, no currency, no nothing. Do these people realize the costs associated with such things? Never mind I'd reject a Quebecois passport.

And let's not talk about the Native issue. Oh, do nationalists love to pretend it doesn't exist! Same with the mumblings of Montreal considering separating from Quebec. I mean, if Quebec is different from Alberta, why stop there? Montreal is pretty damn different from Chicoutimi. No?

Anyway.

If Quebec has a weakness, it's business. It's not a business oriented society. It distrusts private enterprise.

Notice he fails to mention that Sweden, despite having a similar population has an economy 40% bigger than ours. That's because Quebec has high unemployment, high drop out rates, low productivity, high taxes, low savings rates - bah, I just went over this. To me, it was always a joke that a tiny country like Sweden had until recently TWO internationally respected car brands, while Canada had ZERO.

Yes, this is the way forward.

Naturally.

A few years ago people from Alberta even said that it was because of the equalization payments that Quebec pays for so many social services. That’s not exactly true because even wealthy provinces like Ontario receive equalization payments and there are six provinces that receive equalization payments. Ontario receives the least amount of equalization payments per citizen and after it’s Quebec as the second least.

This is true.

But Quebec wants to be a big boy sitting at the big boy table then compare itself to the big boys. We receive less than the poorest provinces. The richest provinces stand more on their own two feet than Quebec does. Nice try kid.

I'd respect their claims of separation being a "mature" movement if they'd refuse it. Alas, Quebec is in its rights to receive payments. Quebec does pay for its programs (mostly through a provincial income tax) but look at the cost: We earn less on a per capita basis. Ergo, less disposable income.

And the thing that’s really sad about it is we’re gonna lose. The people who speak French in Canada are a minority and faced to a language like English we will disappear. Immigrants who come here see it as being way more advantageous to learn English rather than French and you know what, they know that we will comply with them. We will eventually serve them in English, even though we pretend that we’re tough and we only want to speak French we eventually always fold.

Interesting comment...and a sad one if this is how they see things. It shouldn't be this way. What's remarkable about Canada is that the majority of its citizens accept Quebec's right to preserve its culture and language. Nobody worth their salt would argue against it and it's unfortunate this person sees enemies everywhere.

However, what we're objecting to is the punitive measures in order to protect the culture. This works against anything found in any major charter containing rights of man.

No wonder they need laws to protect who they are.

Sigh.

The difference today is that we’re still a minority, but the thing is, our will to fight has disappeared with the fact that some Francophones have integrated the bourgeoisie and they agree with the fact that (whether they try to lie or not) English is the international language and that personal human rights must be placed before group rights. For example, the right for parents to send their kids to an English school. Obviously if these kids go to an English school they won’t learn French as well as if they would go in a French school. And what’s going to happen is that it’s going to become the language that they’re going to use every day and they’re going to become Anglophones. In Rome, do as the Romans do and that’s exactly what I expect from people coming to Quebec. Just please try to learn the language. They don’t! They don’t try, they’re not passionate, they don’t care about it and then they act as victims when we try to put measures in place to defend our rights. It’s a n’importe quoi esti.

Finally, someone who trumps individual rights. He's on the right path and this I can respect. However, I need a citation about not wanting to learn English. Because I fear this is a precious, tiny few who refuse and really, does it matter that someone FREELY chooses not to?

Lemme be sympathetic here.

I agree with him. Learn French. It's good for you. It's a nice language. The predominant language here. It's beautiful to learn multiple languages. However, on the flip side, I'm not gonna go nuts because some people choose not to. In America, you have large pockets of people who can't speak English. Who knows why they don't but here's the thing: They lose in the long-run. It's not worth losing time and energy about little old Maude who is from another time and lives exclusively in Westmount "speaking white." If she's seen as a threat, then Quebec has bigger inner issues to resolve. 

And spare me the passionate bit. Since when is it a prerequisite for anyone to be fucking passionate about anything? Passion can impede rational thought anyway so let's not overplay this. Besides, who gets to choose how "passionate" someone is?

A common plea among nationalists in some form or another "Just show us you care!"has been changed to "they don't speak well enough." It's so bad hockey writers make fun of people from other parts of the country for their poor French. Assholes. Nothing is more annoying than watching pompous hillbillies make fun of people on TV.

Finally, he blows up his first assertion that individual rights must preserve by tolerating collective measures to "fix" the problem.

Pick a side buddy.

I stand on the rights of the individual.

One more thought directed at Mme. Dorion who says:

What Parizeau said was really sad, but it was true. But, it just means that some communities publically decided to say that they sided with the no side and they invited their communities to vote no. It’s not because of that that we exclude them. On the contrary, I even think that if we can convince more immigrants to come with us, it will help convince Quebecers that are not sure because Quebecers are so afraid to look like racist like people or not nice. We’re just so afraid to harm people; it’s a collective trait of Quebecers. 

My friend, a separatist driven by emotions rather than real date, at the time of Parizeau's sickening comment likely emboldened by alcohol said the same thing. "It's true but you can't say that!"

This passes as intellectualism in Quebec.

Then you have a lot work to do because you're lagging on this front.

Afraid to look racist? Which part? The ones where they tell people off for speaking English in public? Actually, it's the exact opposite in my experiences. Quebecers "tell things like it is as they seen them" and that often gets them in trouble. 

***
Quebec has much more to give I believe but I think we're pouring our energies in all the wrong areas to achieve this. The best way for Quebec to move forward is to clean up its corruption and debt matters first. Then it needs to rethink and rework its relationship with entrepreneurs and the free-enterprise system. Get the cardiovascular system going, if you will, by improving cash flow. It can do this by lowering taxes and stop expanding one of the largest welfare states in the West.

Once that's done, it can tackle the issues of poor education and mediocre access to health and the deteriorating quality of service.

Above all, it needs to shed its excessive fear of English. Leave people alone. Stop threatening fellow citizens with punitive measures for merely expressing who they are.

Quebec's ills are not Ottawa's fault. Nor are they the fault of other communities.

Nope.

Quebec's fault lines lie within itself.

Time to grow up.