Please join me in an 'Intervention" saving Man of Roma from relativism. I think I'd rather have him snorting coke than tolerate relativism.
Tongue firmly in cheek of course.
Seriously, MOR (bless his Roman soul) asked me what my problem with relativism was. First, here's a primer.
-If you often say, "whatever," "who cares," "its all relative," etc., you probably are a Cultural Relativist. Lord, how many times I've heard this. Another one is "what's the big deal?" It induces vomit.
-If you believe there is no relevant truth (Certainly no absolute truth!) in reality, you probably are a Cultural Relativist. I believe there are truths to be found. I further believe right and wrong are not relative.
-If you believe in social anarchy as a prime metric for a free society, you are well on your way to Cultural Relativism.
-If you believe chaos reigns over all reality, your roots are deep in Cultural Relativistic soil.
-In quarter four of Millennium II, if you say, "I am politically correct," you are one of institutional academia's ex-cathedra Cultural Relativists. (However, note your own non-"political correctness" of saying you are.)
I'm a mid-tier thinker. Nonetheless, it's what I perceive and I'm glad I'm not alone in this fight against what I regard to be "irrational" intellectual forces.
Man, don't get too heated. I'm not prepared for this discussion. I don’t even know what we are talking about, if you want to know the truth. I’m leaving a confused moment in my life, nothing serious, man, don’t worry. Besides I like to talk about things when I have some knowledge. Philosophy is serious stuff. So here is just my rant.
ReplyDeleteI can say this is just how I feel. Millions of people are like me in Europe and they get along very well. I probably got this from my father. He was disillusioned because all he believed in was destroyed by the war or proved wrong. Italy was gone. And Europe too. He was also without a religion because Italian unification in 1860-70 occurred against the Church. Families were still split in his days. The women generally were for the Church but the men were for the Italian state. I understand one needs truths to make the path clearer, but I don't have them. Do you want to judge me because I don't have them? I know you’re not judging me. You’re only probably finding my position upsetting, or just a bit confusing. Please don’t. You are a good man. I respect you. And I’m not that important. Plus my ideas come from a different history. And of course I believe in honesty and other things. I am a good man too. I believe in helping those in need. So where is the big deal?
I think I have my own way of escaping relativism. It is only a personal opinion. To a certain extent, and in my view, the notion of good and evil is not learned, it is inborn. This is why at each generation humankind renews herself (itself?).
Heh.
ReplyDeleteUpset?
Moi?
Io?
Nah.
I'm just, erm, musing.
But I do have to digest your response. Hopefully I can come up with a reasonably coherent thought.
Be careful though; I'm not saying one should judge another person. What I'm saying is we should not lose the capacity to judge things for reactionary purposes.
Relativism's roots (and I could be wrong) is rooted in the belief that somehow the West is evil. That our jaded outlook needs to be explained. Relativism, in other words, leaves vulnerable to all sorts of kookiness and leads us down an even more confused path.
Trust me. Given what I'm going through at the moment myself; relativism would a perfect way to comfort me. But I fear it would be misleading and ultimately fruitless.
Relativism's roots (and I could be wrong) is rooted in the belief that somehow the West is evil.I don't see this connection. Yes, Taliban, muslim fundamentalists think we are rotten etc. Who the hell cares. I'm for freedom. Everybody has his/her right to solve the fundamental questions of life the way he/she likes.
ReplyDeleteNon so perché, abbiamo difficoltà a trovare punti di incontro in questo dialogo oggi. It's probably me. I'm a bit tired and have many things up my head.
Here's a story. A few weeks ago we were sitting around the table and we watched a report on Russian hackers. Apparently in Russia, hackers are treated like national heroes especially if they defraud Westerners and Americans in particular.
ReplyDeleteRussia. That model for us all.
So I made a similar comment. It's not surprising they would do so.
Of course, this left two younger members at the table uneasy as they pulled out all the relativist mumbo-jumbo, "we do the same thing," "we're no better" "how can we say this and that" "whatever" and all that jazz.
No doubt we're not perfect nor are we angels. But I'd like to think we're a tad more advanced in what we celebrate and what we don't. Sure, we tend to praise and romanticize criminals a little too much but that's a common thread in all civilizations.
BUT, as I reminded my little Gen X friends, the bottom line is hackers will get prosecuted here. We do have a justice system that strives to be effective and functional. Some people may marvel at a hacker's intelligence (I know I do) but most would in the end accept they should face the consequences of their actions.
So, they sat there silent. Relativism clouded their judgment. To them, "Bush is Hitler" type of thinking is perfectly legitimate. No need to study Nazi Germany. Just make the leap and link the two.
Then I asked a direct question: if their own website was hacked (they own a spa) and their accounts were wiped out which justice system would they rather face?
They admitted it was here.
End of the line folks. They failed to consider all sorts of other factors before spewing relativist BS.
Then I got up and left...for dramatic effect.
Well, the NCAA tournament was on.
MOR, go rest up! We need you at full force!
ReplyDeleteIf someone can point out my errors in thinking please by all means do so.
ReplyDeleteI think you are confusing superficiality and relativism. Things are way more too complex, I believe. And of course I agree that justice in North America is much better than in Russia. I lived in Russia almost one year man.
ReplyDeleteHm. Don't know. I think both are the same.
ReplyDeleteMOR in Russia! For teaching?
I was there for an e-learning project. It was a great experience. People had to be taught tons of things by making use of distant learning and Internet. Since Russia is huge e-learning was much cheaper than face-to-face learning. I organized the Intranet thing and instructed the teachers. It was tough. For many reasons. But all went well.
ReplyDeleteOK, now I guess I dig what the fuss is all about. In your dictionary, relativism equates with " anything goes", horrible I agree. Relativism, for me, is about shades of grey. The darker the grey the more the situations and the responses become clear and good and bad become obvious. The case of the potential hacking of your spa owners accounts is a nice illustration of that.
ReplyDeleteOther situations are much les clean cut...and there you have to relativize things before jumping to conclusions and ask yourself: had I been in that guy's shoes what would I have done?"
The answer implies understanding, compassion and an open mind.
And, dear Commentator I suggest you remove, before anything else, your dark glasses. I repeat:"Shmile Luigi".
By the way, who comes up with those horrendous code word?
Oh PC, I completely agree with the "situational" illustration you present. I do so on a day to day basis. It keeps me in check.
ReplyDeleteHowever, my point is the type of relativism that passes as intellectual with academics is a bunch of baloney.